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So when did looks become important? My God looks like the mountains in Colorado or the beautiful waterfall in Hawaii. He also looks like the devastation after a tornado or a starving child.
True. I can see God up there smokin’ a cigar and making wise cracks all the time. He’s got to have a sense of humor to deal with all of us morons walking around down here.
I think the classical renaissance portrayal of Christ sums up the entire religion…..mostly that we know very little about the man from a historical standpoint. So much so that we in the West basically invented what he looked like, what he did and what he said, thus creating our perfect savior…..on paper at least.
Dead Sea scrolls
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Dead Sea scrolls consist of roughly 900 documents, including texts from the Hebrew Bible, discovered between 1947 and 1956 in eleven caves in and around the Wadi Qumran near the ruins of the ancient settlement of Khirbet Qumran, on the northwest shore of the Dead Sea.
The texts are of great religious and historical significance, as they include some of the only known surviving copies of Biblical documents made before 100 BCE, and preserve evidence of considerable diversity of belief and practice within late Second Temple Judaism. They are written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, mostly on parchment, but with some written on papyrus.[1] These manuscripts generally date between 150 BCE to 70 CE.
The New Testament was written in Greek originally…Latin was used in the Middle Ages to keep the texts accessible only to the clergy. When it was first translated into English by Wycliffe (among others) the Church almost had him hanged for heresy. It seems that the church thought it heretical to give the power of interpretation to the masses. From their viewpoint I would have to agree that letting anyone interpret their version of a sacred text however they saw fit would be troubling. But honestly, I find the whole “sacred text” and “divine right” scenario troubling enough as it is. Eventually the English version became the best seller because of its accessibility by the inhabitants of the British colonies. The irony of this whole thing is that about 85% of what we know as the New Testament (in English anyway) is still derived from these early translations that are rife with mistakes. Even the earliest Greek versions (all written 40-80 years after Jesus’ death, by men who never met or saw him…ever) contain thousands of discrepancies and inconsistencies. I personally think that if you are going to base your life on this single work of literature, you basically have to learn to read Greek…. then read these early texts and see how they differ….then realize that you have been wrong all of this time…and then change or lose your faith….. Just as many scholars have done over the last 100 years.
I have the Greek New Testament. I also have Strongs, which takes Greek and gives the English word or phrase. Most of today’s versions use all of the tools available to make sure it closely copies the original Greek.
The Old Testament is the same, except in Hebrew instead of Greek.
What is amazing is the New Testament fulfills the Old Testament. The only writings that I know of where the prophets were spot on.
The problem is we don’t have anything “original”. God should have written his book on something a little more lasting than papyrus and skin. Maybe during the digital age so we could just publish it exactly as intended.
The writers of the New Testament wanted to fulfill the OT prophecies. How are we to know they didn’t make things up or adjust the stories to align better with how things were “prophesied” to happen?
There are hundreds of early copies of Mark written in Greek spanning from around 40 CE to 70 CE (roughly) and no 2 are exactly the same. Mathew and Luke borrow heavily from these early copies of Mark (which was written first) and no two of them are exactly the same. Which of these early copies does Strongs or the Greek New Testament use as a source? I would argue (as would many of the scholars that I get this information from) that even if you go back to the earliest Greek texts, you would be hard pressed to find a coherent message that is not contradicted by other early Greek texts that are just as “valid” as your original source text.
As far as prophesy goes… I would say that the apocalyptic prophecies of Judaism were self-fulfilling at most.
All early Christians were Jews…do you not think that each of the various messiahs running around the Mediterranean at the time were seen as potential apocalyptic figures that could fulfill the promises of the early prophets and allow god to end Jewish suffering at the hand of the state? I would say that Christianities major appeal to early Jews was its apocalyptic nature…..they all thought (including Jesus) that “the end” would come within their lifetime….so much for that prophecy.
Jews were chosen…but to say all early believers were Jews…I don’t believe so.
Why do you assume Jesus thought the second coming would happen when He was still alive?
I agree that “all” was a strong word to use….I should have said most if not all early Christians were part of a Jewish sect that eventually called themselves “Christians”.
…..and Jesus and Paul say multiple times:
“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” — Matthew16:28
“But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.” — Luke 9:27
“Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.” — Matthew 23:36
“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.” — Matthew 24:34
“Nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.” — Matthew 26:64
“Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.” — Mark 9:1
“Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.” — Mark 13:30
“And ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.” — Mark 14:62
“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.” — Luke 21:32
So, since Mark, Mathew and Luke were all basically derived from the same sources you must come to the conclusion that Jesus and his followers believed that the end would come within their lifetime or at least within the 1st century CE (that’s what is apocalyptic about it all).
In Mark, the earliest gospel recorded, Jesus never calls himself the “Son of God” only the Messiah (which only means that he thought himself close to god). Many people of that era called themselves Messiah so that is not a point that should be dwelled on….. what should be dwelled on is that the copies of the gospels that were written later tend to be more prophetic and more anit-Jewish in order to adhere to early Jewish prophecies, to lend credence to their new religion and to separate themselves from the Jewish faith. The reason that I bring all of this up is because many New Testament scholars (the ones I mentioned earlier for instance) believe that Jesus never truly believed that he was the savior or the son of god. With that said, it is not out of the question to think that Jesus thought the “end” could or even would come in his lifetime.
Matthew 16:28Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Out of context. Finish reading the rest.
Matthew 17:1 After six days Jesus took Peter, James, and his brother John, and led them up on a high mountain by themselves. 2 He was transformed in front of them, and His face shone like the sun. Even His clothes became as white as the light. 3 Suddenly, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
4 Then Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it’s good for us to be here! If You want, I will make three tabernacles here: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”
5 While he was still speaking, suddenly a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said:
This is My beloved Son.
I take delight in Him.
Listen to Him!
6 When the disciples heard it, they fell facedown and were terrified.
7 Then Jesus came up, touched them, and said, “Get up; don’t be afraid. 8 When they looked up they saw no one except Him; Jesus alone. 9 As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, “Don’t tell anyone about the vision until the Son of Man is raised from the dead.” (JESUS KNEW HE WAS GOING TO BE CRUCIFIED, my comment)
10 So the disciples questioned Him, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?”
11 “Elijah is coming and will restore everything,” He replied. 12 “But I tell you: Elijah has already come, and they didn’t recognize him. On the contrary, they did whatever they pleased to him. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them about John the Baptist.
LUKE 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
Out of context. Read the next verses.
28 About eight days after these words, He took along Peter, John, and James, and went up on the mountain to pray. 29 As He was praying, the appearance of His face changed, and His clothes became dazzling white. 30 Suddenly, two men were talking with Him—Moses and Elijah. 31 They appeared in glory and were speaking of His death, which He was about to accomplish in Jerusalem. 32 Peter and those with him were in a deep sleep, and when they became fully awake, they saw His glory and the two men who were standing with Him. 33 As the two men were departing from Him, Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it’s good for us to be here! Let us make three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah”—not knowing what he said. 34 While he was saying this, a cloud appeared and overshadowed (them. They became afraid as they entered the cloud. 35 Then a voice came from the cloud, saying:
This is My Son, the Chosen One;
listen to Him!
36 After the voice had spoken, only Jesus was found. They kept silent, and in those days told no one what they had seen.
MATTHEW 23:36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
These things? Read previous verses.
MATTHEW 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
MATTHEW24:32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: As soon as its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 In the same way, when you see all these things, that He is near—at the door! 34 I assure you: This generation will certainly not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.
With that said, it is not out of the question to think that Jesus thought the “end” could or even would come in his lifetime.With that said, it is not out of the question to think that Jesus thought the “end” could or even would come in his lifetime.With that said, it is not out of the question to think that Jesus thought the “end” could or even would come in his lifetime.With that said, it is not out of the question to think that Jesus thought the “end” could or even would come in his lifetime.With that said, it is not out of the question to think that Jesus thought the “end” could or even would come in his lifetime.With that said, it is not out of the question to think that Jesus thought the “end” could or even would come in his lifetime.Read all of Matthew 24-25. I’m not going to print it, but Jesus ended explaining about the second coming, He said “As you know, the Passover is two days away-and the Son of Man will be handed over to be crucified.” (Matthew 26:2) JESUS HAD TO DIE TO COME AGAIN
Still think He would come again while he is still alive?
Somehow the last two paragraphs are not mine. This is how it should read…
Read all of Matthew 24-25. I’m not going to print it, but Jesus ended explaining about the second coming, He said “As you know, the Passover is two days away-and the Son of Man will be handed over to be crucified.” (Matthew 26:2) JESUS HAD TO DIE TO COME AGAIN
Still think He would come again while he is still alive?
Your multiple “out of context” remarks prove the point that I was trying to make in my Curse of Literature essay. Mainly that most Christian do not understand how the gospels were pieced together. Each of those verses I quoted were basically saying the same thing. These “Verily” phrases can be attributed to Jesus because it is corroborated in Mark first and then re-used in Mathew and Luke multiple times. The phrase can be corroborated, however the story as a whole cannot. You have multiple accounts of the phrase in those 3 gospels, yet they are not telling the same story and definitely are not telling the same story in the same way. So, how exactly do you “know” the context that was meant when you have something that might have happened once (in this case Jesus actually using the “verily” phrase) and then you have multiple accounts of the use of that phrase that are all different?
An interesting point on the this subject is that by the time John was written some 50 years after Mark the story changes completely. No longer will the end come within Jesus’ generation and bring gods kingdom to earth, but now gods kingdom is “from above” or in heaven. This is a drastic change from Marks theology and it changes purely because when John was written it was obvious that the end did not come within the generation stated in Mark, Mathew and Luke….it now comes in the future through the belief of the one who comes from above. These two views are so drastically different, you cannot reconcile them rationally.
You are also taking “generation” out of context. It does not mean generation like we commonly use it today.
This is from The Message:
Matthew 24:32-35″Take a lesson from the fig tree. From the moment you notice its buds form, the merest hint of green, you know summer’s just around the corner. So it is with you: When you see all these things, you’ll know he’s at the door. Don’t take this lightly. I’m not just saying this for some future generation, but for all of you. This age continues until all these things take place. Sky and earth will wear out; my words won’t wear out.
Look the Greek word up for generation, that will help you also.
August 3rd, 2009 at 7:29 pm
So when did looks become important? My God looks like the mountains in Colorado or the beautiful waterfall in Hawaii. He also looks like the devastation after a tornado or a starving child.
August 3rd, 2009 at 11:15 pm
I didn’t say looks are important. I just said everyone can agree that whether or not there is something supernatural out there, we can’t see it.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
I thought God looked like Morgan Freeman. xxxooo
August 5th, 2009 at 12:35 am
Actually, George Burns.
August 5th, 2009 at 8:50 am
True. I can see God up there smokin’ a cigar and making wise cracks all the time. He’s got to have a sense of humor to deal with all of us morons walking around down here.
August 10th, 2009 at 1:04 am
I thought god was a bearded white guy who ran around the Middle East doing magic tricks for unappreciative Jews?
August 11th, 2009 at 10:16 am
A middle eastern white guy?
August 11th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
August 11th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
Typical picture. Even has blue eyes.
August 13th, 2009 at 8:00 am
I think the classical renaissance portrayal of Christ sums up the entire religion…..mostly that we know very little about the man from a historical standpoint. So much so that we in the West basically invented what he looked like, what he did and what he said, thus creating our perfect savior…..on paper at least.
August 13th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
The picture may be westernized, but what He did and said was written long before the “wild wild west”.
August 13th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
…and written, and rewritten, and modified, and discarded, and added to, and then canonized.
August 13th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
and memorized
August 13th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
i guess we need to learn latin and go back to the original scrolls.
August 14th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Dead Sea scrolls
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Dead Sea scrolls consist of roughly 900 documents, including texts from the Hebrew Bible, discovered between 1947 and 1956 in eleven caves in and around the Wadi Qumran near the ruins of the ancient settlement of Khirbet Qumran, on the northwest shore of the Dead Sea.
The texts are of great religious and historical significance, as they include some of the only known surviving copies of Biblical documents made before 100 BCE, and preserve evidence of considerable diversity of belief and practice within late Second Temple Judaism. They are written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, mostly on parchment, but with some written on papyrus.[1] These manuscripts generally date between 150 BCE to 70 CE.
August 14th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
…and people still read the KJV when we have earlier texts in the DSS that contradict or correct problems with the Masoretic Text.
http://www.bibleandscience.com/archaeology/dss.htm
August 16th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
The New Testament was written in Greek originally…Latin was used in the Middle Ages to keep the texts accessible only to the clergy. When it was first translated into English by Wycliffe (among others) the Church almost had him hanged for heresy. It seems that the church thought it heretical to give the power of interpretation to the masses. From their viewpoint I would have to agree that letting anyone interpret their version of a sacred text however they saw fit would be troubling. But honestly, I find the whole “sacred text” and “divine right” scenario troubling enough as it is. Eventually the English version became the best seller because of its accessibility by the inhabitants of the British colonies. The irony of this whole thing is that about 85% of what we know as the New Testament (in English anyway) is still derived from these early translations that are rife with mistakes. Even the earliest Greek versions (all written 40-80 years after Jesus’ death, by men who never met or saw him…ever) contain thousands of discrepancies and inconsistencies. I personally think that if you are going to base your life on this single work of literature, you basically have to learn to read Greek…. then read these early texts and see how they differ….then realize that you have been wrong all of this time…and then change or lose your faith….. Just as many scholars have done over the last 100 years.
August 17th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
I have the Greek New Testament. I also have Strongs, which takes Greek and gives the English word or phrase. Most of today’s versions use all of the tools available to make sure it closely copies the original Greek.
The Old Testament is the same, except in Hebrew instead of Greek.
What is amazing is the New Testament fulfills the Old Testament. The only writings that I know of where the prophets were spot on.
August 17th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
The problem is we don’t have anything “original”. God should have written his book on something a little more lasting than papyrus and skin. Maybe during the digital age so we could just publish it exactly as intended.
The writers of the New Testament wanted to fulfill the OT prophecies. How are we to know they didn’t make things up or adjust the stories to align better with how things were “prophesied” to happen?
August 17th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
There are hundreds of early copies of Mark written in Greek spanning from around 40 CE to 70 CE (roughly) and no 2 are exactly the same. Mathew and Luke borrow heavily from these early copies of Mark (which was written first) and no two of them are exactly the same. Which of these early copies does Strongs or the Greek New Testament use as a source? I would argue (as would many of the scholars that I get this information from) that even if you go back to the earliest Greek texts, you would be hard pressed to find a coherent message that is not contradicted by other early Greek texts that are just as “valid” as your original source text.
As far as prophesy goes… I would say that the apocalyptic prophecies of Judaism were self-fulfilling at most.
August 17th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
The Bible is the most plagarized book written. Full of truths, guides, how to handle all sorts of issues, and grace.
Jews don’t believe the New Testament. So I don’t think it would be apocalyptic to them.
August 18th, 2009 at 8:16 am
All early Christians were Jews…do you not think that each of the various messiahs running around the Mediterranean at the time were seen as potential apocalyptic figures that could fulfill the promises of the early prophets and allow god to end Jewish suffering at the hand of the state? I would say that Christianities major appeal to early Jews was its apocalyptic nature…..they all thought (including Jesus) that “the end” would come within their lifetime….so much for that prophecy.
August 18th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Jews were chosen…but to say all early believers were Jews…I don’t believe so.
Why do you assume Jesus thought the second coming would happen when He was still alive?
August 18th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
I agree that “all” was a strong word to use….I should have said most if not all early Christians were part of a Jewish sect that eventually called themselves “Christians”.
…..and Jesus and Paul say multiple times:
“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” — Matthew16:28
“But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.” — Luke 9:27
“Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.” — Matthew 23:36
“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.” — Matthew 24:34
“Nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.” — Matthew 26:64
“Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.” — Mark 9:1
“Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.” — Mark 13:30
“And ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.” — Mark 14:62
“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.” — Luke 21:32
So, since Mark, Mathew and Luke were all basically derived from the same sources you must come to the conclusion that Jesus and his followers believed that the end would come within their lifetime or at least within the 1st century CE (that’s what is apocalyptic about it all).
In Mark, the earliest gospel recorded, Jesus never calls himself the “Son of God” only the Messiah (which only means that he thought himself close to god). Many people of that era called themselves Messiah so that is not a point that should be dwelled on….. what should be dwelled on is that the copies of the gospels that were written later tend to be more prophetic and more anit-Jewish in order to adhere to early Jewish prophecies, to lend credence to their new religion and to separate themselves from the Jewish faith. The reason that I bring all of this up is because many New Testament scholars (the ones I mentioned earlier for instance) believe that Jesus never truly believed that he was the savior or the son of god. With that said, it is not out of the question to think that Jesus thought the “end” could or even would come in his lifetime.
August 18th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Out of context. Finish reading the rest.
Matthew 17:1 After six days Jesus took Peter, James, and his brother John, and led them up on a high mountain by themselves. 2 He was transformed in front of them, and His face shone like the sun. Even His clothes became as white as the light. 3 Suddenly, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
4 Then Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it’s good for us to be here! If You want, I will make three tabernacles here: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”
5 While he was still speaking, suddenly a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said:
This is My beloved Son.
I take delight in Him.
Listen to Him!
6 When the disciples heard it, they fell facedown and were terrified.
7 Then Jesus came up, touched them, and said, “Get up; don’t be afraid. 8 When they looked up they saw no one except Him; Jesus alone. 9 As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, “Don’t tell anyone about the vision until the Son of Man is raised from the dead.” (JESUS KNEW HE WAS GOING TO BE CRUCIFIED, my comment)
10 So the disciples questioned Him, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?”
11 “Elijah is coming and will restore everything,” He replied. 12 “But I tell you: Elijah has already come, and they didn’t recognize him. On the contrary, they did whatever they pleased to him. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them about John the Baptist.
LUKE 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
Out of context. Read the next verses.
28 About eight days after these words, He took along Peter, John, and James, and went up on the mountain to pray. 29 As He was praying, the appearance of His face changed, and His clothes became dazzling white. 30 Suddenly, two men were talking with Him—Moses and Elijah. 31 They appeared in glory and were speaking of His death, which He was about to accomplish in Jerusalem.
32 Peter and those with him were in a deep sleep, and when they became fully awake, they saw His glory and the two men who were standing with Him. 33 As the two men were departing from Him, Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it’s good for us to be here! Let us make three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah”—not knowing what he said.
34 While he was saying this, a cloud appeared and overshadowed (them. They became afraid as they entered the cloud. 35 Then a voice came from the cloud, saying:
This is My Son, the Chosen One;
listen to Him!
36 After the voice had spoken, only Jesus was found. They kept silent, and in those days told no one what they had seen.
MATTHEW 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
These things? Read previous verses.
MATTHEW 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
MATTHEW24:32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: As soon as its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 In the same way, when you see all these things, that He is near—at the door! 34 I assure you: This generation will certainly not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.
With that said, it is not out of the question to think that Jesus thought the “end” could or even would come in his lifetime.With that said, it is not out of the question to think that Jesus thought the “end” could or even would come in his lifetime.With that said, it is not out of the question to think that Jesus thought the “end” could or even would come in his lifetime.With that said, it is not out of the question to think that Jesus thought the “end” could or even would come in his lifetime.With that said, it is not out of the question to think that Jesus thought the “end” could or even would come in his lifetime.With that said, it is not out of the question to think that Jesus thought the “end” could or even would come in his lifetime.Read all of Matthew 24-25. I’m not going to print it, but Jesus ended explaining about the second coming, He said “As you know, the Passover is two days away-and the Son of Man will be handed over to be crucified.” (Matthew 26:2) JESUS HAD TO DIE TO COME AGAIN
Still think He would come again while he is still alive?
August 18th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
Somehow the last two paragraphs are not mine. This is how it should read…
Read all of Matthew 24-25. I’m not going to print it, but Jesus ended explaining about the second coming, He said “As you know, the Passover is two days away-and the Son of Man will be handed over to be crucified.” (Matthew 26:2) JESUS HAD TO DIE TO COME AGAIN
Still think He would come again while he is still alive?
August 18th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
I think Derek was pointing to the fact that every generation since the bible was lived and written has thought they were the last.
So far that’s not proving to be a very imminent prophecy.
August 19th, 2009 at 6:24 am
Every generation thinking that is not prophecy. If you read all of Matthew 24-25 it is plain that no one knows. Only the Father.
August 19th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Your multiple “out of context” remarks prove the point that I was trying to make in my Curse of Literature essay. Mainly that most Christian do not understand how the gospels were pieced together. Each of those verses I quoted were basically saying the same thing. These “Verily” phrases can be attributed to Jesus because it is corroborated in Mark first and then re-used in Mathew and Luke multiple times. The phrase can be corroborated, however the story as a whole cannot. You have multiple accounts of the phrase in those 3 gospels, yet they are not telling the same story and definitely are not telling the same story in the same way. So, how exactly do you “know” the context that was meant when you have something that might have happened once (in this case Jesus actually using the “verily” phrase) and then you have multiple accounts of the use of that phrase that are all different?
An interesting point on the this subject is that by the time John was written some 50 years after Mark the story changes completely. No longer will the end come within Jesus’ generation and bring gods kingdom to earth, but now gods kingdom is “from above” or in heaven. This is a drastic change from Marks theology and it changes purely because when John was written it was obvious that the end did not come within the generation stated in Mark, Mathew and Luke….it now comes in the future through the belief of the one who comes from above. These two views are so drastically different, you cannot reconcile them rationally.
August 19th, 2009 at 11:05 am
You are also taking “generation” out of context. It does not mean generation like we commonly use it today.
This is from The Message:
Matthew 24:32-35″Take a lesson from the fig tree. From the moment you notice its buds form, the merest hint of green, you know summer’s just around the corner. So it is with you: When you see all these things, you’ll know he’s at the door. Don’t take this lightly. I’m not just saying this for some future generation, but for all of you. This age continues until all these things take place. Sky and earth will wear out; my words won’t wear out.
Look the Greek word up for generation, that will help you also.